Should We Use GOLD or DIAMONDS for UPGRADES?

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  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    The TOOBAD strategy was developed to accomplish the following goals within a single upgrade cycle of approximately 4-5 weeks:

    (1) Upgrade your DEFENSE BASE or TIER
    (2) Upgrade 1-2 WEAPONS - 1 LONG and 1 SHORT rated high enough to compete at the prevailing TIER
    (3) Drone Development

    These goals were based on the single purposed mindset of obtaining the most DIAMONDS possible within that time frame, a portion of which come from diamond production or VAULT capacity, the majority from PvP BATTLES.

    We are currently at TIER 16 and the effectiveness of this strategy is now in decline.

    The vaults are linked to your weapons because with each new TIER the vault sizes increase, but only for the highest tier and the only way to get to those opponents is with weapons rated at the prevailing level or greater; in this case TIER 16.

    I've considered this phenomenon a "tax" for not keeping up and being current; as the TIERS rise, the vaults shrink accordingly for the lower tiers.

    The gotcha is if you're at a lower tier, you need the larger vaults to catch up right? At this stage of the game, it's impossible to be "current" and play for free (without spending any GOLD), so either way GLU has you hooked. Either you spend GOLD on more battles to acquire more diamonds for upgrades OR you spend the GOLD outright for upgrades ... either way they have you spending GOLD.

    Now check this out ... using round numbers:

    It takes 10 battles to win 1M diamonds at the rate of 100K per battle (give or take); that's 100 battles for 10M diamonds. So we're talking about 2,500 AP per 10M diamonds in the Global; that's for each box. To upgrade an entire column would require 40M diamonds or 10,000 AP so you would need to dedicate an entire Global Event to upgrade a single column on the 17.5 weapon.

    Now if you play 24/7 for 96 hours and never loose, you will need to make up roughly a 3,000 AP (120 battles) deficit right? That's 40 energy refills and that costs 800 GOLD ($29.99).

    The upgrade price is 350 GOLD for a single box on the 17.5 weapons; 1,400 GOLD for the column.

    So unless you want your complimentary membership card to the "Lunatic Asylum" it's "healthier" to now spend GOLD on weapons upgrades; the DEFENSE TIER upgrades aren't much better at TIER 16.

    At TIER 17 it will be a blood bath; I'm sorry to say. The ultimate question (concern) is that up until this point DIAMONDS was the key to success and winning BATTLES got you those diamonds. If my calculations are correct, it's cheaper to use GOLD than DIAMONDS and if that's the case, why fight? ...
    ... If you're not fighting then why play?

    This is the last Ooh Rah for me with regards to upgrades. I still like to blast things, so I may continue to play for free until I'm bored out of my mind; but without a goal to reach ....

    There is ONE SINGLE RATIONAL option ... use SNIPERS and ASSAULTS only and that brings us FULL CIRCLE to the very beginning doesn't it? Grab a good TESLA if you dare and can afford the upgrades.

    If anyone is wondering why/how, I am a gambler at heart and crunching numbers (the odds of winning) on the fly is what I do to survive. As a gambler, I would never bet on this horse.

    The "odds" of "winning" at CKS have dropped from 3-1 in the players' favor to 4-5 in favor of GLU; just under even money.

    It's you're move ...
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    Next Post: How much does it REALLY cost to score 10,000 AP?
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    It appears that TIER 17 BASE upgrades are similar to the 17.5 Weapons upgrades in the fact that once you get to the 3rd column of upgrades the cost jumps from 6.8M to 10.26M just above the corresponding vault size, so the BASE ECONOMY will need to be fully upgraded to proceed. This also hold true with regards to 4th column upgrades of the 17.5 weapons; the cost is 9.81M per upgrade and only a fully upgraded BASE ECONOMY will generate enough diamonds to get there.

    I know you need drone weapons parts and the best way to get them is via PvP.

    At 10M a pop, upgrades are cheaper to pay with GOLD, on average 350 GOLD for weapons ... this is problematic to some extent and is purely a player choice at this point. It is infinitely faster obviously. BASE UPGRADES appear to be ok for now, use DIAMONDS.

    Now the REAL problem is for players who haven't acquired and gradually upgraded 17.5 weapons as yet. Obviously 17.5 weapons are required to proceed in the game. We concluded that 60% of power was required to maintain superiority at TIER 16, so they will need to get at least that far to be competitive and have a fighting chance.

    So the BIG question for low budget players ... how do I upgrade weapons and base without blowing my budget and going broke? The obvious alternative is to stop at TIER 16 and play it out as far as it goes OR make the painful decision to increase the gaming budget since seemingly overnight (literally) they are now a full TIER behind and we're just getting started.

    How do we stop the bleeding? I'm trying to construct a plan for these players ... TOOBAD RELOADED.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    try_again wrote: »
    Sounds fun.
    1. Tier 16 63% done.
    2. Calculating weekdays, 7 hours, weekends 17 hours/day. So, 69 hours, almost 10 hours average.
    3. Hopefully playing Amazon, I'm exempt from having to use gold. I'm around 3800 AP during global.
    4. Never added it up, and right now I'm at a deficit since of no. 5. avg is roughly 100k/pvp.
    5. Got 40 parts for Cronos, had the parts earned the last day of leagues, and then not awarded anything the next day. Still using 14.5x Nebula 63% upgraded against (don't laugh) 2.07m bases.
    6. Always. Side note, with the -13 ap I got during the cease fire, everyone had 1 day of silver (fighting like h--- for the top prize), then 2 days of bronze. yet no one played 1 pvp during global. Very strange!

    I have a stockpile of 1000 gold earned since day one, was 1400 at one time, but throw some during clan challenges. Use to be able to get some from free gold (Sears, Cars.com, Walmart), but that seems dried up now. Amazon has NO watch game videos for gold. Like I say, Amazon is still a free to play group for now. I plan on bagging the next 17.5x tesla.

    I'm close to reaching your minimum. If I was Google or iOS, probably not a candidate, but I'm not too concerned, yet. There will be some set backs the end of this month and next month too, so it will be touch and go with my busy calendar.

    That's a great start and you're not in such a bad place as it might seem. The 17.5 TESLA should be a top priority. Winning guns on Amazon is relatively easy, but the major concern at this point is fully upgrading these weapons which has become quite expensive at TIER 17; 60% minimum for a 17.5 to be at parity on TIER 17.

    The TOOBAD RELOADED strategy's primary objective will be to minimize the cost and provide a measurable schedule that will result in an upgraded weapon before it becomes obsolete. The good news is that at TIER 17 the effective lifetime of these new class of weapons is longer; 60 days at least and you'll be able to squeeze some more out of a TESLA (the reason for this requirement). So the effective upgrade cycle can be staggered at 2 month increments; for example a 17.5 TESLA or HEAVY would take you to TIER 19 (if we're still playing) before you would need to plan for another upgrade.

    To minimize the cost of the upgrades, you would concentrate on a single weapon each month (TESLA or HEAVY) and alternate between the two. I'm still in the "crunching" phase, but I think I can get this to work for free OR at a bare minimum cost. By concentrating only on a single weapon, this will make limited diamond resources available for the base upgrades. Drone upgrades would be of secondary concern and can only be accomplished by manipulating one or more of the baseline variables to increase diamond production; usually more PvP battles OR by spending GOLD on some of the upgrades (this is where the FREE 1,400 GOLD per month comes in).

    With the increased cost of VIP Event participation, this strategy will be as important to myself as it would be for anyone else. The TOOBAD 60 PLAN's effectiveness is in decline (built around VIP events); TOOBAD RELOADED will be it's successor (less dependent on VIP and focused more on upgrades).

    I should mention that the TOOBAD RELOADED strategy's Achilles heel is a predictable, reliable Global Event schedule, something that the original TOOBAD strategy had eliminated as a concern.

    The game is evolving and so is TOOBAD.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    The TOOBAD RELOADED conceptual design has been completed and proven during live Global and League Events. I shall publish the details over the next few days, but here are a few important statistics to give you a general idea.

    GOALS: Complete the maximum possible base OR weapon upgrades using FREE ENERGY and FREE GOLD (milestone or otherwise). Ideally and measurably, upgrade the current BASE DEFENSE TIER and a single high-powered weapon (the TESLA is recommended) each month. Whatever is left over or affordable can be used for a second weapon or drone development.

    ASSASINATION POINTS (GLOBAL): a total of 4,500-5,500 AP will be required to make this strategy viable. I'll be able to show how this can be accomplished by playing a total of 40-50 hours. This is a minimum requirement and you have flexibility on how and when you accumulate these AP (weekdays or weekends). However you choose, you will need 40 hours of game play by the conclusion of the Global Event.

    PROJECTED DIAMOND PRODUCTION per GLOBAL: 180 victories with an average vault size of 220K will yield 39.6M diamonds.

    GOLD: I will calculate the hard numbers, but it is estimated that roughly 500 GOLD will be required to supplement your FREE ENERGY PVP battles and pay for equipment such as grenades OR medkits. 300-350 GOLD can be directly derived from event milestones. The remaining 200 GOLD can come from other free sources or a single GOLD purchase (my preference) for $9.99.

    More to come, so stay tuned ...

    Statistics Legend:
    30 Victories (750 AP) X 4 = 3,000 AP which can be achieved in 40 hrs. using FREE ENERGY.
    20 ENERGY REFILLS (60 BATTLES) costs 400 GOLD.
    60 GRENADES costs 270 GOLD
    40 MEDKITS costs 224 GOLD
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • bradr752bradr752 Senior Member Registered Users 1,962 Posts
    Great TOOBAD summary, Scorpion! I look forward to your posts fleshing the strategy out. When I get a moment I will try to post my modification to the TOOBAD strategy for "high rollers", ie, players with a $200 to $500 monthly gaming budget.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    bradr752 wrote: »
    Great TOOBAD summary, Scorpion! I look forward to your posts fleshing the strategy out. When I get a moment I will try to post my modification to the TOOBAD strategy for "high rollers", ie, players with a $200 to $500 monthly gaming budget.

    Sounds like a plan to me ... yet again we're going to have an overdue brain storming session.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • concernedconcerned Advanced Member Registered Users 814 Posts
    amsoft2000 wrote: »
    The TOOBAD RELOADED conceptual design has been completed and proven during live Global and League Events. I shall publish the details over the next few days, but here are a few important statistics to give you a general idea.

    GOALS: Complete the maximum possible base OR weapon upgrades using FREE ENERGY and FREE GOLD (milestone or otherwise). Ideally and measurably, upgrade the current BASE DEFENSE TIER and a single high-powered weapon (the TESLA is recommended) each month. Whatever is left over or affordable can be used for a second weapon or drone development.

    ASSASINATION POINTS (GLOBAL): a total of 4,500-5,500 AP will be required to make this strategy viable. I'll be able to show how this can be accomplished by playing a total of 40-50 hours. This is a minimum requirement and you have flexibility on how and when you accumulate these AP (weekdays or weekends). However you choose, you will need 40 hours of game play by the conclusion of the Global Event.

    PROJECTED DIAMOND PRODUCTION per GLOBAL: 180 victories with an average vault size of 220K will yield 39.6M diamonds.

    GOLD: I will calculate the hard numbers, but it is estimated that roughly 500 GOLD will be required to supplement your FREE ENERGY PVP battles and pay for equipment such as grenades OR medkits. 300-350 GOLD can be directly derived from event milestones. The remaining 200 GOLD can come from other free sources or a single GOLD purchase (my preference) for $9.99.

    More to come, so stay tuned ...

    Statistics Legend:
    30 Victories (750 AP) X 4 = 3,000 AP which can be achieved in 40 hrs. using FREE ENERGY.
    20 ENERGY REFILLS (60 BATTLES) costs 400 GOLD.
    60 GRENADES costs 270 GOLD
    40 MEDKITS costs 224 GOLD

    I am going to say that if we don't have 17.5 weapons, then we will need to tweak the plan a little. With my current 16.5 weapons, and also taking into account the 107K per hour diamond production, realistically I am going to average about 180K per battle, figuring 3 free battles per hour.

    For me personally, I will be able to save some gold on grenades and med kits. Fortunately, I generally do not need to use either, very often.

    I am looking forward to the balance of your post on your reloaded plan. I have implemented almost all of your tips and strategies in my game playing, and let me tell you, they have made a world of difference in being able to play and enjoy CKS.

    I especially liked your multi-kill sentry/juggernaut tip. I make sure to use that one as often as possible, works like charm.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    concerned wrote: »
    I am going to say that if we don't have 17.5 weapons, then we will need to tweak the plan a little. With my current 16.5 weapons, and also taking into account the 107K per hour diamond production, realistically I am going to average about 180K per battle, figuring 3 free battles per hour.

    For me personally, I will be able to save some gold on grenades and med kits. Fortunately, I generally do not need to use either, very often.

    I am looking forward to the balance of your post on your reloaded plan. I have implemented almost all of your tips and strategies in my game playing, and let me tell you, they have made a world of difference in being able to play and enjoy CKS.

    I especially liked your multi-kill sentry/juggernaut tip. I make sure to use that one as often as possible, works like charm.

    Here's another tip, when taking out a SENTRY it's more effective to aim at the base (LOW) than it is to aim at the muzzle (HIGH). Also, don't wait until he's firing to take him on; wake his sleeping a.s.s up with an ASAULT round to the base.

    As long as that multi-kill scenario is working (JUGG ankle shot), your TESLA is fine and does NOT need to be upgraded; the moment the JUGG is left there standing, you know it's time for another weapon. There are warning signs, usually 7 of 10 charges is healthy, when it takes 10 full charges, then it's days are numbered.

    Unlike the TOOBAD 60 DAY PLAN, TOOBAD RELOADED is meant to be customized ... just tell me your parameters, for example, your average vault take is 150K instead of 220K, change a variable and presto ... you'll have your plan (schedule). I was going to mention that in the final report.

    The important thing to remember is that the GOAL cannot change (upgrade your base and weapon), only how efficient you are at reaching that goal changes. This usually translates into a longer time playing the game OR spending more GOLD.

    Once you get that 17.5 ASSAULT (tomorrow) your setup will just about be identical to mine. If you get the TOP 10 prize it WILL be identical ... no worries.

    The reference to grenades and medkits was an FYI item so you can compare the relative costs. For me I just like throwing grenades and watching stuff blow up **SMILES** and I can get lazy at times; it takes the edge off and preserves the win streak at crucial moments.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    amsoft2000 wrote: »
    Next Post: How much does it REALLY cost to score 10,000 AP?

    As with all things CKS, this can be a very subjective conclusion based on a variety of factors and variables. I have determined the most cost and time effective means to reach the goal of 10,000 AP, but let's first make mention of what the advantages are of reaching this goal.

    First you need to accept the fact that by scoring 10,000 AP you will qualify for the GOLD LEAGUE and this can be a costly experience, if you CHOOSE it to be one. For me qualifying for the GOLD LEAGUE is not a true benefit, but rather a "side effect" of successfully scoring 10,000 AP. To date there is nothing that the GOLD LEAGUE offers that cannot be achieved via VIP Events, other than the prestige of competing against the very best players. Everything else costs more in time and GOLD as well.

    Scoring 10,000 AP in a GLOBAL EVENT should not be taken lightly; it requires much time and GOLD in the correct and most cost effective proportions. You must also be a proficient killer who rarely looses a battle; a ratio of 100 victories for every defeat (100-1) sounds about right.

    Now some statistics:
    A minimum of 2,000 GOLD BARS should be planned for. Anything less will require more gameplay time than the prescribed ...
    ... minimum of 50 HOURS of game play during the course of the 96 hour duration of the Global Event, over four (4) days.

    In the event you should loose a battle, your win streak must be restored as quickly as possible using GOLD. This has a cost of 48 GOLD for each defeat. Consequently, should you loose just 5 battles, it will cost you 240 GOLD (480 GOLD costs $19.99).

    10,000 AP is roughly 400 victories (give or take) so you must plan for 100 battles (hopefully all victories) per day of the Global Event. If you play for 12 hours per day, you'll get 36 battles for free and that leaves 64 battles you'll need to pay for using GOLD. This roughly translates into approximately 425 GOLD per day (1,700 GOLD for the 4 day Global Event).

    No more than 300 GOLD should be spent on equipment such as grenades or medkits. While grenades can vastly speed up the time required to win a short battle, medkits should not be required except when you find yourself in dire straits. Always keep medkits on hand however; you do not want to risk breaking a win streak when you could have saved one by using a single medkit. If you find yourself using too many medkits, then you're not equipped to undertake the effort of scoring 10,000 AP in a Global Event.

    Scoring 10,000 AP will "usually" guarantee a placement in the TOP 30. The weapon prize being offered MUST justify the expenditure of time, effort and GOLD. The maximum limit I've prescribed of 2,000 GOLD makes winning the weapon a cost effective venture.

    Registering 400 victories will net you 80,000,000 DIAMONDS on average (probably more). These can be used to greatly accelerate your upgrades process; i.e. DEFENSE BASE, WEAPONS and DRONE.

    Next Post: The TOOBAD RELOADED Strategy

    As Always ...

    Good Luck and Good Hunting !!!
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    I've noticed that starting with the 20.5 rated weapons, the cost of upgrades has been gradually creeping upwards again to the tune of 15M-20M diamonds, depending on which weapon you're upgrading and to what level you're upgrading.

    The URSA (an ASSAULT weapon) topped out at 22M+ diamonds for the final upgrade; that's about 2M diamonds greater than the current vault capacity at TIER 19. These were the costs that I had calculated for TIER 17, but GLU had "rolled back" those cost increases; temporarily it now seems.

    What's troubling about this statistic is that when the cost of upgrades approaches vault capacity, this usually indicates that it is cheaper to use GOLD for those upgrades if you want to stay current.
    It becomes more expensive to win the required number of diamonds via PvP battles alone (even if the vault capacity could facilitate it).

    NOTE: ASSAULT weapons upgrades usually carry the highest weighted diamond cost; 75% of assault weapon upgrades are FREE using GAME CASH, however.

    SIR BRAD ... what are the upgrade costs of the CHITON TESLA?
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • bradr752bradr752 Senior Member Registered Users 1,962 Posts
    The first level of upgrades for the 20.5 Chiton cost 5.91M, it is working so well out of the box, I haven't upgraded it at all. I will let you know when I start to work on it.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    bradr752 wrote: »
    The first level of upgrades for the 20.5 Chiton cost 5.91M, it is working so well out of the box, I haven't upgraded it at all. I will let you know when I start to work on it.

    Have you performed any further upgrades on the 20.5 CHITON? I'm trying to get a handle on TIER 20 weapons upgrades.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • bradr752bradr752 Senior Member Registered Users 1,962 Posts
    amsoft2000 wrote: »
    Have you performed any further upgrades on the 20.5 CHITON? I'm trying to get a handle on TIER 20 weapons upgrades.

    Chiton is now 50% upgraded at 120.34M and works perfectly. First level cost 5.91M, 2nd costs 8.27M, 3rd is 11.23M.

    Sorry I didn't update earlier.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    bradr752 wrote: »
    Chiton is now 50% upgraded at 120.34M and works perfectly. First level cost 5.91M, 2nd costs 8.27M, 3rd is 11.23M.

    Sorry I didn't update earlier.

    Thanks Bro ... so it looks like 4th column will be about 14-15M and 5th 19-20M.

    My 19.5 BETELGEUSE tops out at 90.44M and it's a beast ... that CHITON can probably kill just by pointing at a target :)
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    Greetings Agents,

    It's been awhile since I've posted to this thread and this will most likely be the last post to this thread (for the foreseeable future) unless something occurs that changes the game and is worth discussing.

    We are currently at TIER 22 and that marks "The End" of Contract Killer: Sniper for the vast majority of players and with the "thinning of the herd" comes the termination of any further (meaningful) development of this game; this includes any known bug fixes and any new features such as an updated (improved) version of CLAN WARS.

    The reason is quite simple, at TIER 22 current weapons (22.5 or better) now cost more (almost double in some cases) to upgrade using diamonds than by using GOLD. The "Defense Base" (if you can call it that) currently costs over 1 BILLION diamonds to upgrade. So unless you're completely mathematically challenged, this is a hurdle that only those with the deepest of pockets can overcome.

    Using Global / League Events to acquire weapons, officially have no practical use at all. The ONLY viable way to acquire effective weapons is via VIP Events. If you're not willing to do that, there is only one singular alternative if you desire to continue playing this game for a few months more and that is to stop ALL upgrades forthwith.

    The TOOBAD RELOADED Strategy is now obsolete and should be discarded immediately.

    Even if you were willing to play 24 hours a day / 7 days a week, you're just treading water ... you can no longer make any advancement or progress and certainly there will be no sense of achievement. Since the #1 reason for playing any game at all is to reach some sort of "achievement", it sort of defeats the purpose to continue.

    Although the High Rollers will continue to play for some time to come, the stark reality will eventually sink in for them as well, for without any meaningful competition .. it's like being a king with no subjects :) 1 man clans and TIER 8 challengers ... this is no way for a champion to endure.

    Strategies? The ONLY strategy that remains is to spend ... spend ... spend !!!

    Competition? The ONLY competition that remains is to spend ... spend ... spend !!!

    This is the "new" GLU GOLD standard and paupers need not apply.

    So that's it. I'll update this thread with the upgrades costs breakdowns, but until then ...

    Good Luck and Good Hunting !!!

    By the way ... I am currently evaluating "SNIPER 3D: ASSASSIN" as an alternative.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    Before we get started with the Cost Analyses, I want to state that my main comrade in arms, BRAD, has already stated that he has forsaken ALL weapons upgrades in favor of an approach that uses the VIP Event acquired weapons, straight "out of the box", for as far as it might take him, during the battle cycle. I suspect many other "high rollers" have adopted the same strategy and if not, they will.

    This is not a testimony of how expensive successfully playing this game has become NOR how much a player might be willing to spend in order to compete ... rather it is a reflection of the cold and hard realities of the costs involved in upgrading weapons. It makes no recommendation on how to play the game OR how to manage your finances other than to use GOLD for upgrades if, by chance, you feel the need to upgrade your weapon.

    So let's get to it, shall we?

    This is rather simple, so it will not take long to document. We all love the TESLA, so that is the weapon we'll use to illustrate how upgrading weapons using GOLD is a lot cheaper than fighting the required PvP battles to obtain the DIAMONDS required to perform the same upgrades.

    TIER 22 weapon(s) du jour are rated @ 22.5. We'll use the TOP 10 / VIP 22.5 OSSUARY TESLA (and it's clones) as an example. This is by far the most popular weapon amongst the gladiators.

    The first two columns of upgrades are relatively cheap starting @ 66 GOLD. The 3rd column is where GOLD vs DIAMOND prices really start to part company.

    126.36M DIAMONDS won using PvP battles (4x31.59M diamonds):
    @ 1.0M+/raided vault; 42.12 FULL ENERGY (842.40 GOLD)
    @ 1.2M+/raided vault; 35.10 FULL ENERGY (702.00 GOLD)
    @ 1.3M+/raided vault; 32.37 FULL ENERGY (647.49 GOLD)

    - VS -

    440 GOLD (4x110 GOLD); the GLU price to upgrade column #3.

    The above is the simplest way I could think of to illustrate the cost divergence. Since BASE upgrades now cost over 1 billion diamonds OR 850 PvP battles, using free energy is NOT an option; we would have long exceeded that threshold.

    For the record, the maximum free FULL ENERGY available in a 24 hour period is ... well ... 24 :)
    ... the equivalent of 480 GOLD. Put another way, in roughly 3 weeks you might have a shot at fully upgrading the weapon for FREE, provided you upgrade nothing else and play for 24 hours each day.

    The decision on whether to use GOLD or DIAMONDS for weapons upgrades, going forward, has been rendered academic by GLU. VIP Events are the only way to proceed.

    For some helpful hints on how to grab some free GOLD, please refer to CONCERNED's post response about 2/3 down: http://ggnbb.glu.com/showthread.php?204488-Tier-22-Base-has-been-released/page4

    Good Luck and Good Hunting !!!
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    I just wanted to offer some great news; this serves as an update to the previous post regarding upgrade costs for the 22.5 OSSUARY TESLA.

    GLU has slashed weapons upgrade prices to offer some temporary relief. :)

    Column #4 Upgrade Costs using TIER 23 raided vault payouts:

    88.68M DIAMONDS won using PvP battles (4x22.17M diamonds):
    @ 1.4M+/raided vault; 21.11 FULL ENERGY (422.29 GOLD)
    @ 1.5M+/raided vault; 19.71 FULL ENERGY (394.13 GOLD)
    @ 1.6M+/raided vault; 18.48 FULL ENERGY (369.50 GOLD)

    - VS -

    480 GOLD (4x120 GOLD); the GLU price to upgrade column #4.

    GLU did modestly raise the GOLD price though.

    There ARE times when GLU will take notice of our posts and act accordingly.

    The house never loses, as GLU has also doubled the cost of DEFENSE BASE upgrades (over TIER 21), which are now running at just under 1.5 BILLION Diamonds ...
    ... GLU giveth and GLU taketh away ... SMH
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • bradr752bradr752 Senior Member Registered Users 1,962 Posts
    Glu has cut costs for weapons upgrades for the 23.5s as well. 23.5 Level 2 upgrades used to be 29.93, now 16.63, Tier 2 used to be 41.9M, now 23.28M. Level 3 used to be 56.86M now 31.59M.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    At this juncture, the final stages of Contract Killer: Sniper, we need to proceed with great caution and collectively ask ourselves ... "Is it worth it?".

    Over the next few days I will attempt to answer this question, once and forever.

    *** PART 1/3 ***

    There is no doubt that fighting PvP battles (the cornerstone of CKS), to acquire DIAMONDS to pay for base upgrades, has mutated into the most expensive and time consuming "method of payment".

    The long despised method of using GOLD to pay for base upgrades, may now be the de facto and most cost effective option moving forward. If this is in fact the case, then clearly the move is YOURS; CHECK.

    NOTE: It will take a couple of days to gather all of the required statistics, so PLEASE be patient.

    **********
    TIER 22: Unlock Stats - 58.79M Diamonds - 598 GOLD.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 58.79M Diamonds - 350 GOLD
    Column 2: 63.21M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 67.61M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 72.02M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 261.62M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 63.21M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 67.61M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 72.02M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 76.43M Diamonds - 780 GOLD

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 279.27M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 22: 1,099.44M Diamonds - 9,828 GOLD
    **********

    For TIER 23, the DIAMOND cost has risen significantly, but the GOLD cost has remained static.
    (relatively speaking)
    ... costs have doubled since TIER 21 was released just 8 weeks past; CHECK.

    There is definitely more to this story (a work in progress, if you will) ... so, please come back soon !!!
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    *** PART 2/3 *** (Preview - Please keep in mind that the following are "Projected Costs")

    ACTUAL COSTS will be updated as these are reported or calculated.

    **********
    TIER 23: Unlock Stats - 76.4M Diamonds - 520 GOLD.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 76.40M Diamonds - 350 GOLD
    Column 2: 82.10M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 93.60M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 339.90M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 81.10M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 93.60M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 100.17M Diamonds - 780 GOLD

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 362.67M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 1,427.91M Diamonds (+40% over TIER 22) - 9,750 GOLD (-78 GOLD)
    **********

    The cost of using diamonds for base upgrades has more than doubled since TIER 21 was released; meanwhile the cost of using GOLD has remained relatively "flat" over the same period.

    Since the maximum TIER 23 vault capacity is 100.17M diamonds, that total will be the "opening salvo" for TIER 24; only GLU knows how much the overall cost increases will be by then; CHECK.

    Come back soon for PART 3, which will feature my analyses and final conclusions.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • bradr752bradr752 Senior Member Registered Users 1,962 Posts
    The cost of Base upgrade in Diamonds is increasing, but as a practical matter it is not as extreme as the 40% raw figure. Average PVP vaults are up 30% (1.3M to 1.7M), which mitigates the 40% increase in total expense to upgrade Tier 23 using Diamonds. Still not cheap, but less daunting than the numbers would seem to indicate.
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    bradr752 wrote: »
    The cost of Base upgrade in Diamonds is increasing, but as a practical matter it is not as extreme as the 40% raw figure. Average PVP vaults are up 30% (1.3M to 1.7M), which mitigates the 40% increase in total expense to upgrade Tier 23 using Diamonds. Still not cheap, but less daunting than the numbers would seem to indicate.

    Agreed and your point is well taken. Parts 1 & 2 were only meant to document costs; I would have contrasted vaults and PvP battles in Part 3 (Analyses) but you beat me to the punch.

    You're making an assumption that everyone is raiding 1.7M vaults at a minimum and that they can devote their entire (conscious) life to a video game. That's one hell-uv-an assumption.

    Even while vaults have increased about 30%, while costs have increased 40% (or more each month) ... we're still moving in reverse :( as the number of PvP battles required (already in the RED zone for most) continues to rise; those battles require more and more GOLD as well.

    Put another way, if the cost of living rose by 40% while wages increased by 30%, that sort of inflation would lead to a revolution. Unfortunately in this case, a guillotine is out of the question ... or is it?

    *** SMILES ***
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    Ever since we started playing PvP we've been upgrading the DEFENSE BASE. In the past it dissuaded potential attackers from attacking us and stealing our diamonds. Then GLU decided to make PvP an "equal opportunity" scenario meaning only players with equal ratings or chances of winning would ever see each other ... the "defense" was now obsolete.

    The defense base supposedly integrates into Clan Wars as a defensive mechanism ...
    I don't know how that works since the battles themselves are pitifully easy, I've never lost a CW battle and I seriously doubt that many are experiencing any problems defeating a CW opponent.

    Now I have an open mind and I need someone, anyone to offer a reason, any reason at all why we are updating the defense base on a 4 week cycle? I mean it is at the center of all the effort, thousands of battles, billions of diamonds, hundreds of hours, etc. etc. etc. Are we really that desperate for a reason to play this game that we'll accept any reason at all?

    Now I am dead serious about this. You'll continue to close your contracts, obtain better weapons, upgrade your drone, participate in Clan Wars, Global Events, VIPs ... whatever you fancy.

    How would your experience change, in any way whatsoever, if you forgot you ever had a defense base?

    Even if you somehow believed that having a larger vault would provide you with some sort of an edge ... is it worth billions of diamonds?

    What was that screaming I heard? ... "I'm Mad As Hell and I'm NOT Going to Take it Anymore !!!"

    Ooh Rah !!! :cool: Rant Over ... I feel better already.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    CURRENT WEAPONS (Upgrade Status):
    SNIPER: 23.0 TALON MKII (acquired 04/07) @ 75%.
    HEAVY: 23.5 GODHAMMER MKII (acquired 04/07) @ 60%.
    ASSAULT: 23.5 SABERTOOTH MKII (acquired 04/07) @ 75%.

    UPGRADES:
    All three of the H.O.G. weapons listed above, require 41.57M diamonds. This translates into 25.98 PvP Victories @ 1.6M diamonds per raided vault, which costs 173.21 GOLD.

    The corresponding GLU "sticker price" in GOLD is as follows:

    23.0 TALON MKII SNIPER ---- 126 GOLD (1x)
    23.5 GODHAMMER MKII HEAVY - 132 GOLD (4x)
    23.5 SABERTOOTH MKII ASSAULT - 150 GOLD (1x)

    When you couple BASE and WEAPONS upgrades together, clearly it's cheaper to use GOLD for upgrades. To fight the required number of PvP battles to perform the same upgrades is no longer the "smart play", considering the amount of game play time that would be required to accomplish this task.

    For the current TIER 23, a combination of using PvP DIAMONDS and GOLD is prescribed if your average vault take falls between 1.6M-1.7M.

    THE RULE: Use GOLD when the "break even" threshold is exceeded.

    A simple equation for calculating the number of PvP battles (amount of GOLD needed) appears below.

    (((COST / VAULT) / 3) x 20) = GOLD

    - OR -

    Using the exhibit's H.O.G. weapons: (((41,570,000 / 1,600,000) / 3) x 20) = 173.20833333 GOLD

    The math is quite simple and these numbers will only increase @ TIER 24 with 24.x weapons.

    TAKEAWAY: You could conceivably spend 7,000-10,000 GOLD every TIER on the initial VIP Event of each Battle Cycle, fight the battles you just purchased and never upgrade your weapons ...
    ... (well, at least not past the "break even" threshold). :cool:

    That would be a player's preference, however. An expensive proposition, to say the least.

    Good Luck !!!
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    This is the final PART of this discussion, but before I go ahead and offer "my" conclusions, I want you to be honest with yourself and think about the following for awhile.

    At TIER 23 you know it's going to take approximately 1,000 PvP Victories to upgrade you base using diamonds. You also have a rough idea (or a way to calculate) how many PvP Victories are required to upgrade your weapons.

    The only question you need to ask yourself, "How long would it take me to fight those battles?", is all that needs to be determined and if that number (how ever large OR small it is) falls within the amount of time you're willing to play this game, each and every day, then go for it ... simple.

    Don't forget, there's a cost associated with fighting all those battles :) Striking a balance is the key.

    I take no responsibility, whatsoever, for your boss firing you, your wife hitting you over the head with a frying pan, your kid(s) turning their back(s) on you or your friends never calling you again ...
    ... that's your problem and a tradeoff you will need to accept.

    I'll be back with a wrap-up soon.

    Good Luck and Good Hunting !!!
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    I'm no longer going to waste your time with DIAMONDS, GOLD, equations, cost analyses ...
    ... blah ... blah ... blah ... so let's cut to the chase.

    The truth of the matter is staring you in the face ...

    Simply put, if it costs less to "purchase" upgrades than it does to "earn" the required items by playing the game itself, then there is only one conclusion that can be drawn. Couple this fact with unbelievable player health boosts, incredibly powerful weapons that can ONLY be acquired via VIP Events and meaningless Global / League Event prize awards, a 6 month old Clan Wars feature that was introduced DOA and never left the morgue ... well I'll let you get "there" on your own.

    The final realization comes with knowing the DEFENSE BASE, which accounts for 90% of your time, effort and expense adds absolutely nothing to your gaming experience ... the final "nail in the coffin"; not only have campaign missions and contracts been reruns, but the entire current REGION is a replay of one we've already played and completed in the past.

    GLU has moved on and I'm afraid it is now time for us (the veterans) to do the same.

    It was a wild ride, strewn with highs and lows, but it was (is) still, on balance, a positive gaming experience. I've really enjoyed shooting the place up and when you think about it ...
    ... that's the only reason why we collectively continued to play this game for as long as we have.

    We've played and been played; garner whatever remaining enjoyment you can ... I know I will :cool:

    CHECK and MATE.

    The Best of Luck and Good Hunting !!!

    SPECIAL NOTE:
    There appears to be a 24.5 SIONA MKII atop the GOLD VIP rated @ 1.44B (equal to today's Global TOP 10 prize). It could be an ASSAULT Weapon though. Either way, it is definitely "under powered" ...
    ... assuming, of course, it's a TIER 24 (24.5) weapon.

    I believe that the "pop up" ad for the current VIP, is an error and should be ignored.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    For those still interested in upgrading the BASE DEFENSE (although I can't imagine why), the costs have increased substantially for TIER 23 (WHISKEY) but will be more than offset by the larger vaults (provided you have the proper and upgraded weaponry).

    **********
    TIER 23: WHISKEY "Prior to" latest CKS Release.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 76.40M Diamonds - 350 GOLD
    Column 2: 82.10M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 93.60M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 339.90M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 81.10M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 93.60M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 100.17M Diamonds - 780 GOLD

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 362.67M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 1,427.91M Diamonds (+40% over TIER 22) - 9,750 GOLD (-78 GOLD)
    **********

    **********
    TIER 23: WHISKEY "Following" latest CKS Release.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 100.00M Diamonds - 350 GOLD **
    Column 2: 114.40M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 139.90M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 481.4M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 114.40M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 139.90M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 151.00M Diamonds - 780 GOLD **

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 532.40M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 2,078.60M Diamonds - 9,750 GOLD
    **********

    You will notice that GOLD prices have remained flat AFTER the new release, but diamond prices have risen another 30% over the price BEFORE the new release.

    As I've mentioned previously, and I cannot emphasize this more, DEFENSE BASE upgrades are totally useless at this level and the lack thereof, will NOT affect you gaming experience in any way ... yet :cool:

    Please note that the 1st and Last upgrades identified by "**" are estimates; all others are actual.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
  • ZeusismeZeusisme Junior Member Registered Users 77 Posts
    amsoft2000 wrote: »
    For those still interested in upgrading the BASE DEFENSE (although I can't imagine why), the costs have increased substantially for TIER 23 (WHISKEY) but will be more than offset by the larger vaults (provided you have the proper and upgraded weaponry).

    **********
    TIER 23: WHISKEY "Prior to" latest CKS Release.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 76.40M Diamonds - 350 GOLD
    Column 2: 82.10M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 93.60M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 339.90M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 81.10M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 87.80M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 93.60M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 100.17M Diamonds - 780 GOLD

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 362.67M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 1,427.91M Diamonds (+40% over TIER 22) - 9,750 GOLD (-78 GOLD)
    **********

    **********
    TIER 23: WHISKEY "Following" latest CKS Release.
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 100.00M Diamonds - 350 GOLD **
    Column 2: 114.40M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 139.90M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 481.4M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 114.40M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 139.90M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 151.00M Diamonds - 780 GOLD **

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 532.40M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 2,078.60M Diamonds - 9,750 GOLD
    **********

    You will notice that GOLD prices have remained flat AFTER the new release, but diamond prices have risen another 30% over the price BEFORE the new release.

    As I've mentioned previously, and I cannot emphasize this more, DEFENSE BASE upgrades are totally useless at this level and the lack thereof, will NOT affect you gaming experience in any way ... yet :cool:

    Please note that the 1st and Last upgrades identified by "**" are estimates; all others are actual.

    Good detail observations .. however I beg to differ on whether to upgrade your base or not.
    Higher level base means higher level diamonds return (mining overnight ) . If fully guarded it will definitely help you upgrade your gun parts which in turns makes you be able to use your floods of cash when you did a lots of campaign for sure.

    My two cents ..
  • amsoft2000amsoft2000 Expert Member Registered Users 5,782 Posts
    Greetings ... The following is a comparative upgrade cost breakdown of TIER 23 vs TIER 24.

    Before we get started, I want to state for the record that I was able to upgrade 2 x DEFENSE BASES in just under 13 DAYS and carefully monitored all vital statistics on a daily basis; I realized absolutely no benefit at all by doing so and the ONLY reason I even considered undertaking the task of upgrading the base(s) at all was because I had absolutely nothing else to spend diamonds on ... period.

    There was a modest 16% increase in diamond production however but this was attributed to moving from one TIER to another and/or using better weapons and had very little to do with upgrading the base itself ...
    ... when compared to the more than 5 BILLION diamonds required to accomplish this task, I can safely say, without any doubts whatsoever, that I can live without that small increase in diamond production.

    **********
    TIER 23: "WHISKEY".
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 100.00M Diamonds - 350 GOLD **
    Column 2: 114.40M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 139.90M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 481.4M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 114.40M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 127.10M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 3: 139.90M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 151.00M Diamonds - 780 GOLD **

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 532.40M Diamonds - 2,410 GOLD

    Total TIER 23: 2,078.60M Diamonds - 9,230 GOLD
    **********

    **********
    TIER 24: "XRAY".
    BASE ECONOMY:
    Column 1: 152.60M Diamonds - 350 GOLD
    Column 2: 171.70M Diamonds - 450 GOLD
    Column 3: 190.70M Diamonds - 550 GOLD
    Column 4: 209.80M Diamonds - 650 GOLD

    Total Base Economy: 724.8M Diamonds - 2,000 GOLD

    GUARD, SENTRY, HEALTH:
    Column 1: 171.70M Diamonds - 420 GOLD
    Column 2: 190.70M Diamonds - 540 GOLD
    Column 3: 209.80M Diamonds - 660 GOLD
    Column 4: 228.90M Diamonds - 780 GOLD

    Total Guard, Sentry, Health (each): 802.10M Diamonds - 2,400 GOLD

    Total TIER 24: 3,131.10M Diamonds - 9,200 GOLD
    **********

    You will notice that GOLD prices have remained static; actually these haven't increased in several months now, while diamond costs continue to rise.

    Since diamond costs are rising faster than overall diamond production (even with the larger vaults) ...
    ... one does not need to be a "brain surgeon" to figure out what time it is :cool:

    The Bottom Line:
    Upgrade costs using diamonds have risen 50% while diamond production has increased by only 16%; GOLD prices have not significantly changed, in fact they have dropped.

    DEFENSE BASE upgrades doubled in cost going from TIER 21 to TIER 22 and continue to rise with each succeeding TIER. If it "seems like" it's taking longer and costing more to perform upgrades, even in light of the HUGE vaults, it's definitely NOT your imagination.

    Finally ... if you were the enterprising type who had fully upgraded your TIER 23 defense base BEFORE the release of CKS 5.0.0, the costs also doubled going from TIER 23 to TIER 24 since the pre-CKS 5.0 total cost was only 1,427.91M Diamonds. The upgrades cost has more than tripled since TIER 22 ...
    ... 6X the cost of upgrading the defense base at TIER 21.

    All of this could be accepted as part of the gaming experience except for a couple of glaring problems ... diamond production hasn't kept pace AND there are no tangible benefits to be realized from upgrading the base (larger vault capacity aside).

    Such is life at ... The GLU Factory.
    Complex Minds Require Challenging Games ... SCORPION
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