Defense mechanics

WinterHordeWinterHorde Junior MemberRegistered Users 96 Posts
I'm trying to figure out how does the defense works exactly?

- Does it a representation of a number that is being deducted from the monster's damage?
(For example: let's say the monster's damage is 300, and I have 2 heroes with 100 and 200 defense. Then in this case the first one will get 200 dmg and the second will get only 100 dmg?)

- Does it a % of some base value?

- How does magic defense fits in to this and if it's a separate value why can't we see it anywhere?

Comments

  • Tyman2222Tyman2222 Junior Member Registered Users 58 Posts
    For the defence, that's a good question I would like to know too. With the magic defence, it's for magic skills like one of the ogres or other creatures that attacks with a ball of magic like Z'dar does. But items with magic defence like +25, I don't know if it's 25 attack points less if the creature uses a magic spell/skill or if it's a %.
  • SeTaSSeTaS Junior Member Registered Users 73 Posts
    good question.
    I think it require an experiment. to see how much damage receives heroe from the same enemy. its ofcourse differs because of damage ist stabe. but average numbers could help?
  • rewandrewand Advanced Member Registered Users 588 Posts
    I'm guessing here but I've noticed how high armor Heroes tend to take less damage from the same monster. This leads me to believe that defense is simply subtracted from the damage. Chrillion's excellent DPH, Hero & Party level Guide says the same. All the same, I've never seen a hit not do any damage even when my current party fights on the first level but when you've got 1000+ HP an attack which does 10 is the same as one which does 30 or zero.

    Things that add to defense as a percentage can simply be tacked on. For example 20% magical defense means base defense * 1.2. Of course it would only apply to magical attacks. I have no idea whether magic defense gives protection from darkness fear attacks. I'd think that since casters get magic defense via the "wisdom" skill this would bump lower the chance of the panic attack. At the same time this game's runtime is full of logical contradictions so I'm betting there is no help given against the fear attack.
  • WinterHordeWinterHorde Junior Member Registered Users 96 Posts
    rewand wrote: »
    I'm guessing here but I've noticed how high armor Heroes tend to take less damage from the same monster. This leads me to believe that defense is simply subtracted from the damage. Chrillion's excellent DPH, Hero & Party level Guide says the same. All the same, I've never seen a hit not do any damage even when my current party fights on the first level but when you've got 1000+ HP an attack which does 10 is the same as one which does 30 or zero.
    This can tested rather easily, actually. We need to test with 3 heroes, let's say 0, 50, 100 defense. Send them in and see how much dmg they get. If the subtract theory is correct, we'll see a difference of 50 points between the hits. If it's % then the 2nd hero (50 defense) should get double the dmg the 3rd one gets (100 defense).
    That's just one idea, I'm sure chrilion can think of a few others. After all he's the mathematics/statistics wiz of this forum :D
  • rewandrewand Advanced Member Registered Users 588 Posts
    This can tested rather easily, actually. We need to test with 3 heroes, let's say 0, 50, 100 defense. Send them in and see how much dmg they get. If the subtract theory is correct, we'll see a difference of 50 points between the hits. If it's % then the 2nd hero (50 defense) should get double the dmg the 3rd one gets (100 defense).
    That's just one idea, I'm sure chrilion can think of a few others. After all he's the mathematics/statistics wiz of this forum :D

    We are missing something because the inverse of the test you suggest can also be done. by Chrilion's chart, my Oda does 973 DPH. It's actually 980 now because I've leveled up a bit. I put him against a headhunter solo and see that the damage bounces around but could have a median value of 980. However, the damage I'm seeing is BEFORE the monster's armor is factored in. Surely the monster has armor...
  • WinterHordeWinterHorde Junior Member Registered Users 96 Posts
    rewand wrote: »
    We are missing something because the inverse of the test you suggest can also be done. by Chrilion's chart, my Oda does 973 DPH. It's actually 980 now because I've leveled up a bit. I put him against a headhunter solo and see that the damage bounces around but could have a median value of 980. However, the damage I'm seeing is BEFORE the monster's armor is factored in. Surely the monster has armor...
    I'm not so sure. From a DEV's point of view, why bother with useless stats? Monsters never change gear so they will always get the same damage. Why bother with armor stats when you can simply decide how many HP each monster will get? Easy monster? 200 HP. Hard monster? 2000 HP. and so on
  • rewandrewand Advanced Member Registered Users 588 Posts
    I'm not so sure. From a DEV's point of view, why bother with useless stats? Monsters never change gear so they will always get the same damage. Why bother with armor stats when you can simply decide how many HP each monster will get? Easy monster? 200 HP. Hard monster? 2000 HP. and so on

    And yet we get features in a venom weapon which reduces enemy defense or Rognan's Flurry skill which "Breaks through any armor and decreases defense of enemy". I'm not saying the description of how armor affects damage received is wrong. I'm just saying there is a facet of this that we are missing.
  • WinterHordeWinterHorde Junior Member Registered Users 96 Posts
    rewand wrote: »
    And yet we get features in a venom weapon which reduces enemy defense or Rognan's Flurry skill which "Breaks through any armor and decreases defense of enemy". I'm not saying the description of how armor affects damage received is wrong. I'm just saying there is a facet of this that we are missing.
    Right... I forgot about the venom weapons :eek:
    Well, another speculation gets thrown out of the window.
    We are definitely missing something
  • Tyman2222Tyman2222 Junior Member Registered Users 58 Posts
    Actually with those bat things and sometimes with other monsters (with the easier missions with less than 60 difficulty) , when Kassia or O'da attacks the first time the monster has a little bit health left after 900-1800 damage, they attack again and it's says like 900-1800 damage the second time but there health stays the same, I have had to attack a max so far of 4 times total to kill it and there was no misses or dodges and the first attack just about takes all it's health.
  • WinterHordeWinterHorde Junior Member Registered Users 96 Posts
    Tyman2222 wrote: »
    Actually with those bat things and sometimes with other monsters (with the easier missions with less than 60 difficulty) , when Kassia or O'da attacks the first time the monster has a little bit health left after 900-1800 damage, they attack again and it's says like 900-1800 damage the second time but there health stays the same, I have had to attack a max so far of 4 times total to kill it and there was no misses or dodges and the first attack just about takes all it's health.
    That's just a bug. The first hit reduces health but the rest don't effect the monster until it's done the "entering screen" phase. Then the monster becomes "active" (starts casting spells, shooting arrows or chasing your heroes) and only then you can keep hitting it.
  • Tyman2222Tyman2222 Junior Member Registered Users 58 Posts
    Ok thanks.
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