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****py Players VS Good Players - Ratings Lie Sometimes

Tanman19azTanman19az Registered Users 15 Posts
in TSB 2016 General Discussion
Hey guys! I dont know if this has been done before, but I've noticed that there are players that don't perform well in this game despite having a good rating. As well, there are others that are awesome even though they are 3.5 to 4 stars. Let's make a list of all of those players so others can be smart and put the best lineup/rotation on the field

Bad Hitters

Ryan Zimmerman (I swear I have drafted him 5 times already) - 4 stars
Hanley Ramirez - 4.5 stars
Justin Upton - 4.5 stars
Adam Lind - 4.5 stars

Bad Pitchers

Kyle Hendricks - 4.5 stars
Lance McCullers - 4.5 stars
Jason Hammel - 4.5 stars
Jordan Zimmerman - 4.5 stars
Keone Kela - 4 stars
Michael Pineda - 4 stars

Good Hitters

DJ Lemaheiu - 4 stars
Jason Kipnis - 4.5 stars
Michael Brantley - 5 stars
Paul Goldschmidt - 5 stars
Adam Eaton - 4 stars
Adrian Beltre - 4 stars
Nick Hundley - 4.5 stars
Xander Bogaerts - 4 stars
Adam Eaton - 4 stars
Corey Dickerson - 4 stars

Good Pitchers

Cole Hamels - 4.5 stars
Danny Salazar - 4.5 stars
Mark Melancon - 5 stars
Xavier Cedeno - 4 stars
Marco Estrada - 4 stars
Luis Severino - 4 stars

Comments

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    astrosbaseball2016astrosbaseball2016 Registered Users, Member 317 Posts
    To add to the good pitchers section... Felix Hernandez(4-star) is awesome. Michael Wacha, Tim ****ey, and Erasamo Ramirez are other 4-stars that pitch well. Iwakuma is a very bad 5-star pitcher. Ben Revere, Dee Grodon, and Yunel Escobar are all 4-star hitters but have a 9 hitting. Should hit around .400 if not over that for you.

    As far as relief pitchers. Just look at stuff. Brad Brach is 3.5 star 8 1 8 but does well. Brad Ziegler(4-star 2 7 9) does better than most of my 5-stars.
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    ariusvideoariusvideo Registered Users 29 Posts
    You may want to quantify what you mean by good "hitters". Certain players are simply not going to have good batting averages, but provide great power (and are worth what you loose from their BA). Many of those players you mention are listed as like a 5 Hit rating or less, so I'd totally expect them to have lower averages. Both Zimmerman and Upton are prime examples.

    I've had Upton for at least...I'd say 10 levels (currently at Ace) and he's easily been my all time MVP. His BA is .251 all-time for me, but his AB/HR is 10.1 (basically a HR every 10 AB's). I only recently picked up Zimmerman a couple of weeks ago from a Fan Reward with no original plans of even adding him to my lineup. Tried him out as a DH and his BA's a paltry .225, but his AB/HR is 11.1.

    I have a lot of good "hitters" in my lineup (as @astrosball2016 previously mentioned, Yunel Escobar: AVG = .424 and Ender Inciarte: AVG = .411), but the power I get from Zimmerman and Upton more than make up for their averages.

    Regarding Bad Pitchers, I'd add Jose Fernandez to that list. He's got to be the worst 5 star pitcher out there. He has a 7 stuff and primarily throws straight down the middle fast*****. Anyone with at least 1-2 good power hitters in their line-up and a little patience will just RAKE the heck out of him. He's my only 5 star SP and he's literally on my bench because I'm tired of him getting lit up.
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    ImperialstoutsImperialstouts Registered Users, Member 42 Posts
    Tanaka and Smyly are hot garbage.
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    ImperialstoutsImperialstouts Registered Users, Member 42 Posts
    I agree with you about Severino and McCullers. I have McCullers in on a trial basis, but Severino is about to get his spot back.


    If you want a valuable 3-* reliever, go for 8 1 7 Greg Holland. If you want a capable 2.5* pitcher, look at 1 1 8 Chi Chi Gonzalez.
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    gocubsgo0128gocubsgo0128 Registered Users, Member 272 Posts
    ariusvideo wrote: »
    You may want to quantify what you mean by good "hitters". Certain players are simply not going to have good batting averages, but provide great power (and are worth what you loose from their BA). Many of those players you mention are listed as like a 5 Hit rating or less, so I'd totally expect them to have lower averages. Both Zimmerman and Upton are prime examples.

    I've had Upton for at least...I'd say 10 levels (currently at Ace) and he's easily been my all time MVP. His BA is .251 all-time for me, but his AB/HR is 10.1 (basically a HR every 10 AB's). I only recently picked up Zimmerman a couple of weeks ago from a Fan Reward with no original plans of even adding him to my lineup. Tried him out as a DH and his BA's a paltry .225, but his AB/HR is 11.1.

    I have a lot of good "hitters" in my lineup (as @astrosball2016 previously mentioned, Yunel Escobar: AVG = .424 and Ender Inciarte: AVG = .411), but the power I get from Zimmerman and Upton more than make up for their averages.

    Regarding Bad Pitchers, I'd add Jose Fernandez to that list. He's got to be the worst 5 star pitcher out there. He has a 7 stuff and primarily throws straight down the middle fast*****. Anyone with at least 1-2 good power hitters in their line-up and a little patience will just RAKE the heck out of him. He's my only 5 star SP and he's literally on my bench because I'm tired of him getting lit up.

    I would take average over power all day. A guy hitting .225 is almost and automatic out. That kills streaks and limits you to 1-2 run innings. Basically you'll homer or get out. If you get lots of .400 + hitters you will hit a ton of singled and doubles and score much more often. Look at chart below. Clearly it takes 1 homer to score a run. Generally speaking if you hit 2 double you will score and it takes 3 singles to score. I assigned a value of 1 for a home run, a .5 for a double and .333 for a single. I used your idea that a high power guy will homer 1/10 at bats, and said his remaining hits will be evenly distributed between singles and doubles. For a high batting average guys low power I said he will homer 1 out of 200. Then their 2/3 of the hits will be singled and 1/3 doubles. Numbers came out like below. If you ahd 1000 at bats


    Homers
    avg Avg
    hits hits
    1b 1b
    2b 2b
    hr hr
    runs Runs



    .250
    250
    75
    75
    100
    162.50



    .424
    424
    281
    138
    5
    167


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    ariusvideoariusvideo Registered Users 29 Posts
    gocubsgo0128 wrote: »
    I would take average over power all day. A guy hitting .225 is almost and automatic out. That kills streaks and limits you to 1-2 run innings. Basically you'll homer or get out. If you get lots of .400 + hitters you will hit a ton of singled and doubles and score much more often. Look at chart below. Clearly it takes 1 homer to score a run. Generally speaking if you hit 2 double you will score and it takes 3 singles to score. I assigned a value of 1 for a home run, a .5 for a double and .333 for a single. I used your idea that a high power guy will homer 1/10 at bats, and said his remaining hits will be evenly distributed between singles and doubles. For a high batting average guys low power I said he will homer 1 out of 200. Then their 2/3 of the hits will be singled and 1/3 doubles. Numbers came out like below. If you ahd 1000 at bats



    avg
    hits
    1b
    2b
    hr
    runs



    .250
    250
    75
    75
    100
    162.50



    .424
    424
    281
    138
    5
    167









    I think your math here is sound if you're only factoring the power hitters runs by themselves. However, you have to account for the Runs they Bat In, as well. Many of those HR's have the capability of being 2 Run, 3 Run or even Grand Slams.

    As I stated earlier, most of my offense are good hitters (8 or more in Hit rating) so they get on base pretty often. And it's those power/cleanup hitters that have the opportunity to come in and take advantage of that high OBP. An example of what I mean:

    Justin Upton on my team has played in 2976 games with 11928 AB's. He has 3180 RBI's.

    AJ Pierzynski on my squad (an 8 Hit rating) has played in 2879 games with 11715 AB's. He has 1904 RBI's.

    Yunel Escobar (a 9 Hit rating) has played in 2546 games with 10539 AB's. He has 2057 RBI's.

    If you factor out both of those 8+ hitters over the same number of games as Upton, you'd get the numbers listed below:

    Out of 2976 Games
    Upton = 3180 RBI's
    Pierzynski = 1968 RBI's
    Escobar = 2404 RBI's


    Out of 11928 AB's
    Upton = 3180 RBI's
    Pierzynski = 1939 RBI's
    Escobar = 2328 RBI's


    Upton definitely beats both of those better hitters over the same number of games/AB's in the RBI category (which games are won/loss by the total number of runs scored).

    Now none of this take into account batting order, talent of pitching faced over those games differenced or even game situations (all of which factor in the real world). And my initial argument certainly wasn't to imply that Power Hitters with lower Hit ratings are better than players with high Hit rating and lower Power rating. My initial argument was just to impress that a couple of good power hitters with low"ish" Hit rating in your lineup where the remaining hitters are ideally 8+ Hit rating or more; that that power can make up for the difference in Hit rating/BA for those lower rated hitters.

    All that being said, I personally wouldn't recommend having more than 3 (max) power hitters of no less than 5 Hit rating in your lineup, if you can help it.
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    astrosbaseball2016astrosbaseball2016 Registered Users, Member 317 Posts
    You've really gotta have a mix of hitting and power... And it really depends on where the game puts them in your lineup... If you have a 9 hitters like Revere and Kipnis batting 1st and second, then have a power bat in the 3 spot.. It will work out perfectly... ery good chance at least one of those guys will be on for your power hitters.
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    23mightymouse23mightymouse Registered Users, Member 40 Posts
    I like to look at the rc27 stat. Its a good indicator of how many runs the player is contributing. Higher number is better.
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    ariusvideoariusvideo Registered Users 29 Posts
    Tanman19az wrote: »
    Hey guys! I dont know if this has been done before, but I've noticed that there are players that don't perform well in this game despite having a good rating. As well, there are others that are awesome even though they are 3.5 to 4 stars. Let's make a list of all of those players so others can be smart and put the best lineup/rotation on the field

    Bad Hitters

    Ryan Zimmerman (I swear I have drafted him 5 times already) - 4 stars
    Hanley Ramirez - 4.5 stars
    Justin Upton - 4.5 stars
    Adam Lind - 4.5 stars

    Bad Pitchers

    Kyle Hendricks - 4.5 stars
    Lance McCullers - 4.5 stars
    Jason Hammel - 4.5 stars
    Jordan Zimmerman - 4.5 stars
    Keone Kela - 4 stars
    Michael Pineda - 4 stars

    Good Hitters

    DJ Lemaheiu - 4 stars
    Jason Kipnis - 4.5 stars
    Michael Brantley - 5 stars
    Paul Goldschmidt - 5 stars
    Adam Eaton - 4 stars
    Adrian Beltre - 4 stars
    Nick Hundley - 4.5 stars
    Xander Bogaerts - 4 stars
    Adam Eaton - 4 stars
    Corey Dickerson - 4 stars

    Good Pitchers

    Cole Hamels - 4.5 stars
    Danny Salazar - 4.5 stars
    Mark Melancon - 5 stars
    Xavier Cedeno - 4 stars
    Marco Estrada - 4 stars
    Luis Severino - 4 stars


    I'm curious of other peoples thoughts on a couple of pitchers listed here:

    OP has Cedeno listed as a "Good" Pitcher. I've actually owned him (a couple of times) but never bothered putting him in my lineup because every time I played against him I KILLED him (so didn't want others to do the same to me). I eventually traded him away (both times I owned him). Was I a little too hasty (is he better than I thought)?

    I also recently picked up Jordan Zimmerman and have him in as my #5 starter (kinda out of necessity). He's had some mixed outings and been too early for me to tell if he's really "good" or "bad" (in 4 games played has a 5.63 ERA and 1.29 WHIP). I had Jake Odorizzi in, but he just kept getting killed. Would anyone recommend any of the following pitchers over Zimmerman?

    Andrew Heaney - 4 stars
    Tommy Milone - 4 stars
    Gio Gonzalez - 3.5 stars (I played a game against Gio and he did a number against my hitters. Thew some nasty stuff. Kinda scared of his 7 - 4 - 5 rating, though).
    Mike Leake - 3.5 stars
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    ImperialstoutsImperialstouts Registered Users, Member 42 Posts
    ariusvideo wrote: »
    I'm curious of other peoples thoughts on a couple of pitchers listed here:

    OP has Cedeno listed as a "Good" Pitcher. I've actually owned him (a couple of times) but never bothered putting him in my lineup because every time I played against him I KILLED him (so didn't want others to do the same to me). I eventually traded him away (both times I owned him). Was I a little too hasty (is he better than I thought)?

    I also recently picked up Jordan Zimmerman and have him in as my #5 starter (kinda out of necessity). He's had some mixed outings and been too early for me to tell if he's really "good" or "bad" (in 4 games played has a 5.63 ERA and 1.29 WHIP). I had Jake Odorizzi in, but he just kept getting killed. Would anyone recommend any of the following pitchers over Zimmerman?

    Andrew Heaney - 4 stars
    Tommy Milone - 4 stars
    Gio Gonzalez - 3.5 stars (I played a game against Gio and he did a number against my hitters. Thew some nasty stuff. Kinda scared of his 7 - 4 - 5 rating, though).
    Mike Leake - 3.5 stars

    Tommy Milone seems to be pretty effective against me. The rest of those guys aren't very good IMO
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    Superapids135Superapids135 Registered Users 368 Posts
    I focused on WAR and RC/27 stats for my players. Oddly some 3.5 stars that have a high bat (L 8-1-2) are better than 4.5 stars with stats like (R-5-9-4). I have plenty of 4.5 and 5 stars as inactives I've been unable to force myself into trading (seager, Bautista, Frazier, Granderson, forsythe, the Pirates ss Kim I think, and some others but doesn't matter). Point is, early on I went only off star rankings and it was a mistake. Focus on what ur team needs. I felt with my team being all 4.5 and 5 stars (outside of Ben revere, Xander bogerts, and joe Panik) with very high hitting, a bench player with a high hit and opposite handedness would be more beneficial than a power hitter at 5-9 or even 6-9. So I've taken a 8-1 on my bench over multiple 6-9, 6-8-5, 7-5-9, ans some ****py 5-9/5-8
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