Recommendations On Removing RNG From WoH, While Keeping It Fun: This Is A No Whining Zone

drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts

I'll do my best to keep this as short as possible. LOLOLOL

First off, yesterday was fun. I cleared the Third Tier tower three times in about an hour and a half, which is somewhat reasonable. Only complaint would be the requirements to score so many runs in 5.7-5.10, but I don't want to whine. I had to clear three times in order to get Trammel so I could access the new tower.

As for the Fourth Tier tower, here is where I think GLU could make things a bit more fun, challenging, and keep it "legit".

Again, not to whine, but we all know how GLU makes it "challenging": PRE-PROGRAMMED OUTS that are all RNG fixtures. If you get stuck in RNG Hell, you are screwed. This is what happened to me. Despite my initial hesitation, I ended up playing it, cleared it three times at about an hour per cycle, and was well on my way to clearing five so I could get the 60K LxP, only to hit the dreaded RNG wall on 4.10. After going over an hour with an 0-7 effort that would either end after I got it to 6-5, or straight up 9 and outs, I just quit playing. It literally sucks the fun out of the event knowing this is how you "lose". How can this be remedied? Well, I have some recommendations on how to program it without the game injecting this madness.

1) Start the rounds with a certain number of outs. I could handle this prospect better than just waiting for the inevitable or getting within a run, loading the bases, and then have it taken away from me after spending five minutes playing a round. Remove the RNG factor, start rounds 4.10 and 5.10 with two outs. I don't care. I've come back many times on 5.10 after two outs to start. It can be done. It would make it a challenge and you don't have to worry about frickery. Ever!

2) Don't allow hitters to even gain access to a certain round unless they are at a certain hit level. What I am referring to is the notice you get when you start a round that tells you if it is a great matchup or not. Try to put a B1 guy against a G1 guy on 2.5 or higher? Nope, can't even play the round. Your hit rating isn't good enough to unlock that round with that hitter.

3) If points one and two above are initiated, then vary the pitches the pitcher throws more often. In what I refer to as "legit" at bats, there are many pitches that are curves, sliders, etc that end up over the heart of the plate, but you may only see one the entire sequence, while the rest are usually fastballs or changeups. Mix that in a lot more. Eckersly last year immediately comes to mind. I think he closed 4.10 a while last year, and he was difficult to time because of the loops in the pitches.  He didn't curve you out often, but he was a challenge due to the interrupted timing.

Now for something positive about WoH this year.  I have noticed a HUGE change compared to last year, main one being the ability to pull pitches and not hit into an out every time. Yesterday, my first beat down on MR on 5.10 was a line drive shot down the RF line from Kruk that panned out to show the win. You can also take some of the changeups from pitchers and blast them to the power alleys where you don't even see the ball land.  In other words, not everything is the opposite way for success in the game, which is much more realistic.

Also, even though there are less curve outs in the Royale WoH, I do find some of the pitchers there a lot more challenging. For example, and I hate to admit this, I struggle badly with Dallas Keuchel on 5.10 the first few times I play him. He has beaten me quite often without having to curve me out at all. The change of pace of the pitches, combined with the curve get my nerves going. If GLU can find that happy medium in the game without the BS outs, this would take WoH up another level, IMO.

As for the prizes? I'll leave that alone for now.

TY and have a great day!

Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

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Comments

  • Wicked0WildcatsWicked0Wildcats Registered Users, Member 1,040 Posts
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 
  • KCTribeKCTribe Registered Users, Member 262 Posts
    That’s a hard pass from me on 1 and 2. I have no interest in starting the later rounds with 2 outs and don’t really understand how that reduces the “frickery.” Also I can’t tell you how many times I hit the final progress tier for club points because I would play the prime or legend reward at B1. Number 3 I can get on board with. It sucks once you see that first pitch catch the corner of the plate and you know that at bat is over.

    But really, these are all moot points. Increase skills like @Wicked0Wildcats said, watch the frickery diminish, and then you can take off your tin foil hat and enjoy WOH for what it is 😉
  • whynotwhynot Registered Users, Member 1,749 Posts
    edited December 2020
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 


    @drsmartassphd this for a long time but he is more stubborn than a mule.
    I'm confused by what you mean by 5.7 and 5.8.  You mean the round and level? 
    - Blueleopard
  • TheFullMonteTheFullMonte Registered Users, Member 1,588 Posts
    I am not a smart man...but can I asked what the difference is between starting with two outs, and say for instance, seeing 2 “curve outs” in a round?  

    Am I stupid?  Aren’t these the same thing?
  • drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts
    I am not a smart man...but can I asked what the difference is between starting with two outs, and say for instance, seeing 2 “curve outs” in a round?  

    Am I stupid?  Aren’t these the same thing?

    TYVM.

    Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

  • drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 


    See point #2.

    Again, we have been conditioned to accept "luck" as opposed to "skill" in a game that should be about skill, especially after you spend time and money building a team.

    There were many times last year my ATG with 20/20 skills would still get curved out with the score 7-6, a runner on base and no out. That's just....

    I won't whine. Point here is to discuss alternatives to "luck".

    IMO, luck in this this game is there plenty for everyone. That's called pulling players.

    Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

  • More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    I am not a smart man...but can I asked what the difference is between starting with two outs, and say for instance, seeing 2 “curve outs” in a round?  

    Am I stupid?  Aren’t these the same thing?

    The difference again lies with the rating of your hitter and his skills.  There have been too many times to count, where I get a pitch that is a “curve out” and because that batter has only one skill active or just isn’t rated high enough for that matchup — indeed, I make an out.

    However, when I have a great combination of matchup advantage and both skills being active AND capped, there have been plenty of times where I get that same pitch, but fight it off for a bloop single.  In fact, there has already been a few times this year with Babe and Ted, where I got a fastball, curve, or cutter off the outside edge of the plate and not only did I get a hit — they hit dingers.

    Why is that possible?  Because I’m playing at Diamond tier, both players are capped, both have skills at 20/20, and both skills were active for that pitch.

    I think it’s funny when all (most) of the members on here, who have played this game for 3+ years (myself not included) are telling you how it works, based on experience from their trials and errors, while grinding at levels most of us will never reach — yet many on here refuse to believe it.

    There is still a ton of things about this game that I don’t know, despite playing for almost 2 years, but literally everything I know, I have learned from listening to the forum OGs...y’all should try that too.  Just a thought. 🤷‍♂️
  • HoumyHoumy Registered Users, Member 3,867 Posts
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 
    While somewhat true I don't recall even those with capped skills having any luck in those awful Diaz days in the years past. May be different this year though.
    "Get ready for some NFTs" - VIP NEWSLETTER ca. 2022


  • DFBBDFBB Registered Users, Moderators, Member, Moderator 6,597 Posts
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 


    I won't whine. Point here is to discuss alternatives to "luck".


    I learned a long time ago that games are like geometry proofs: 'If this, then that....' For Tsb, it's simply a batter's 'hit' vs a pitcher's 'stuff.' Game mechanics are linear and in that sense, the 'luck' factor is straight forward. Having better players and higher skills essentially manipulates the numbers in your favor and as a result, allows you to control the odds. If you're constantly getting curved out, it means that the batter's 'hit' isn't high enough.  

    I often talk about how many 'outs' I make because it's an indication of where I am, relative to the ideal threshold of winning and losing. For example, at cyber with a 20/20 Copper and level 11 xfactor, it's not unusual to win without making any outs. At the mega tower, despite winning(I did lose a few), I had multiple close calls. If I didn't want to be reliant on 'luck,' I'd gold boost. 

    While what I wrote above describes my experience in diamond, the same concept can be applied at lower tiers. The difference is that lower tiers have less of an influence on the outcome because simply put, the numbers are much more impactful at diamond. 

    tl;dr It's not luck, it's a numbers game. 




    If you're not having fun, you're losing.
  • DFBBDFBB Registered Users, Moderators, Member, Moderator 6,597 Posts
    Houmy said:
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 
    While somewhat true I don't recall even those with capped skills having any luck in those awful Diaz days in the years past. May be different this year though.
    Back then, we had single skill players and I didn't know anyone that took skills to 20. Also, most of us were silver/gold too....all that and Diaz/Neris were level 10! Yikes! lol
    If you're not having fun, you're losing.
  • CanadaCubsCanadaCubs Registered Users, Member 1,209 Posts
    So basically this whole discussion can be summed up in the following points:
    -Max out skills on top 3 closers
    -Still haven’t seen proof of Docs hot wife
    -Diaz was a nightmare 
    "If you can't beat them, report them"
  • More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    -Still haven’t seen proof of Docs hot wife
    You came very close to making me spit out a piece of my subway sandwich right now 🤣
  • drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts

    @DFBB: Correct, I am on board with all of this logic. Completely. My discussion is how to remove any of the luck factor from it and keep it all at skill. If your top three closers are not strong enough, you simply cannot unlock that round. Period. If the hit vs stuff ratio isn't what it needs to be, at any game level, then you can't compete. Spend the resources to build up the skills.  Gold and below may need to be 17/17 at minimum while plat and diamond, due to the extra LxP needed to cap the players at P10 or D10 may not need to have the skills at a crazy level.

    Again, this is just a conversation on how to avoid the instances where you spend a good bit of time getting to a point in a round, only to "lose" it bc of RNG. As much blue cash and resources as this costs, this isn't too much to ask or consider, IMO.


    Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

  • 2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,642 Posts
    I haven’t seen any proof either but I keep searching to internet to find it. 
  • dustyhunksdustyhunks Registered Users, Member 1,670 Posts
     
  • More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    @drsmartassphd

    The biggest problem with players potentially needing to have a certain rating to qualify for a certain round of WoH, is it would ruin our ability to use unleveled bonus players for points.  That would in turn vastly deter many (non-whales) from spending gold and buying deals on Monday.  That alone means it will never happen because it would directly cut into Glu’s revenue.
  • jmsorioles33jmsorioles33 Registered Users, Member 392 Posts
    DFBB said:
    The RNG in WOH can be manipulated by the player through team building measures -- skill upgrades in particular. It is within your control. Yes, you always have the chance to lose to Lady Luck, but can drastically alter the algorithm in your favor and tip that scale from 55-60% to 95-98% for example. 


    I won't whine. Point here is to discuss alternatives to "luck".


    I learned a long time ago that games are like geometry proofs: 'If this, then that....' For Tsb, it's simply a batter's 'hit' vs a pitcher's 'stuff.' Game mechanics are linear and in that sense, the 'luck' factor is straight forward. Having better players and higher skills essentially manipulates the numbers in your favor and as a result, allows you to control the odds. If you're constantly getting curved out, it means that the batter's 'hit' isn't high enough.  

    I often talk about how many 'outs' I make because it's an indication of where I am, relative to the ideal threshold of winning and losing. For example, at cyber with a 20/20 Copper and level 11 xfactor, it's not unusual to win without making any outs. At the mega tower, despite winning(I did lose a few), I had multiple close calls. If I didn't want to be reliant on 'luck,' I'd gold boost. 

    While what I wrote above describes my experience in diamond, the same concept can be applied at lower tiers. The difference is that lower tiers have less of an influence on the outcome because simply put, the numbers are much more impactful at diamond. 

    tl;dr It's not luck, it's a numbers game. 




    Idk how many people played this but as a kid i played a card game called MLB Showdown and it’s essentially the same set up as TSB mechanics. Basically, who has the advantage (pitcher or hitter) is determined by their ratings and then from there is a range of outcomes (different for pitcher or hitter advantage) determined by a dice role (basically manual RNG). 

    Like TSB, i think a large portion of the “skill” in that game was the strategy that goes into building a strong team and making good decisions with your resources. I could see a less standard pitch sequence being a cool change (although id suck at it) but at the same time we have to understand the tradeoffs associated with what we decide to do with our team. There’s no wrong way to play this game but the fact is if you go diamond you’ll have to grind and/or spend more, if you don’t, woh is going to be harder for you.
  • MattattackMattattack New Member Registered Users 1,970 Posts

    I'll do my best to keep this as short as possible. LOLOLOL


    :#
  • dkarski87dkarski87 Registered Users, Member 3,040 Posts
    There is no "skill" involved in this game.  That especially true for WOH. As @DFBB has mentioned many times over the years, its all about the numbers, nothing more. I could give my team to a rookie TSB player and he will likely have no issues cycling WOH at a higher level. Its all about the numbers and boosting the odds to favor the pitch outcomes you receive.
    "Oops we need to restart! Yeap that's 2019 for ya!"
    – The Great Houmy
  • KCTribeKCTribe Registered Users, Member 262 Posts
    @jmsorioles33 awesome comparison with MLB Showdown. I LOVED that game as a kid. I played the NBA and NFL versions too. Funny to think how that game may have had an influence on why we play TSB.
  • jmsorioles33jmsorioles33 Registered Users, Member 392 Posts
    KCTribe said:
    @jmsorioles33 awesome comparison with MLB Showdown. I LOVED that game as a kid. I played the NBA and NFL versions too. Funny to think how that game may have had an influence on why we play TSB.
    Yes! I dabbled with those but baseball was the only one i really played, big tournys at Wizards of the Coast lol. Its funny thinking back on it, not only how it relates to TSB but also stuff like Draftkings and Fanduel with the salary cap aspect. I can remember contemplating between a balance lineup or a studs and duds lineup...20 years later, still doing the same thing but for fantasy lol
  • slafrance2slafrance2 Registered Users, Member 1,370 Posts
    I think the pitcher should just throw fastballs all the time... problem solved 🤪
  • DomerHomerDomerHomer Registered Users, Member 76 Posts
    I think the pitcher should just throw fastballs all the time... problem solved 🤪
    @drsmartassphd would still complain. They’d alter the pitch speed enough and he’d simply replace “curve outs” with “more cheat outs.” Or they’d force the wet noodle bat and yet again, more “cheat outs.”

    His approach to ignore the positives of life at gold, while expecting the benefits of diamond teams is what I find most baffling. Oh well, I’d still miss him if he left. 
  • Wicked0WildcatsWicked0Wildcats Registered Users, Member 1,040 Posts
    It's not meant to be an arcade game, the team building is a far bigger part of the game than the "skill" element of WOH. There is a "skill" element of WOH, but more under the scope of, you can screw up a winnable round with bad swings. 

    You can't remove the RNG element from the game entirely. You're theoretically making it possible to beat a legend 5-10 pitcher with a 1 star 40 player on skill alone. I don't know what kind of programming it would take to make that possible, but probably far beyond the complexity that is realistic. This game isn't meant to be a Madden game. 
  • CanadaCubsCanadaCubs Registered Users, Member 1,209 Posts

    Give Karen what she’s asking for.
    "If you can't beat them, report them"
  • retirepujolsretirepujols Registered Users, Member 4,817 Posts
    I don't know, man. I kind of completely disagree with your entire approach to walk off. We win 98% of the time in this game 👀 can't make it 100%
    "It's amazing how much work you can put in without gangly-ass legs in the way" - Sir Tdub71
  • whynotwhynot Registered Users, Member 1,749 Posts
    edited December 2020
    The doc so reminds me of Howard Cossell ( gen x may need to google this one).  You either love him or hate him, but oh boy does he get a conversation started!  Who else can make a long winded post that few agree with but generate so many responses?

    Cheers to ya @drsmartassphd, your certainly one of a kind.
    I'm confused by what you mean by 5.7 and 5.8.  You mean the round and level? 
    - Blueleopard
  • rafini777rafini777 Registered Users, Member 1 Posts
    I know when I'm actually playing I prefer to use RH batter vs. LH pitcher and vise versa, but when auto playing does the side the batter is on matter or is the result strictly based on skill level? Would Trammell with double late innings skills be just as effective against either hand when auto playing?
  • retirepujolsretirepujols Registered Users, Member 4,817 Posts
    rafini777 said:
    I know when I'm actually playing I prefer to use RH batter vs. LH pitcher and vise versa, but when auto playing does the side the batter is on matter or is the result strictly based on skill level? Would Trammell with double late innings skills be just as effective against either hand when auto playing?
    There is a difference, even when autoplaying. You can check a players stats vs lhp and vs rhp and you'll see the difference. Here's Kruk, a lefty with Late inning and ROB:

    "It's amazing how much work you can put in without gangly-ass legs in the way" - Sir Tdub71
  • sullipa8sullipa8 Registered Users, Member 550 Posts

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