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MLB trade deadline

2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
As we wind down to the trade deadline I would like to hear your thoughts/opinions on what has already happened or what might happen. The Dodgers  picked up Mad Max and Trea Turner-is that enough to get them to the series? The Yankees picked up Gallo and Rizzo but are still 3.5 games out of the wildcard. Will they even get into the playoffs? My beloved Reds picked up 3 bullpen arms but is it too little too late? They are 5 games behind SD in the wildcard but with a much easier schedule than the Padres. The Reds  are linked with Trevor Story-does that happen and would it be enough? There are other big names still out there. What do you guys think? 
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    scostelloscostello Registered Users, Member 44 Posts
    The Dodgers' trade for Max and Turner was a killer for the Padres.  More so since it was rumored about an hour before hand that the Padres and Nats agreed on players to for a Mad Max trade.  As a Yankees fan I am jealous of what the Dodgers pulled off.  I wanted Turner on the Yanks!  Even though the Dodgers give up 2 of there best prospects it's a great trade for them!

    Now for my Yankees trading for Gallo and Rizzo.  On the whole, I'm psyched that Cashman actually made some big moves this year.  I can't complain about bringing in 2 big time lefty bats to balance out the lineup.  I will admit that I'm more old school in that I hate the Three True Outcome guys.  So Gallo to me is more of the same crap.  Hit's HRs off the bad pitchers and strikes out when you need it the most.  I don't care what people say, walks are not as good as a hit.  I've never seen a walk drive a runner in from 2nd.  

    As for Rizzo, I love him and glad he is on the Yanks now.  My problem is that I love Voit also and it pretty much means the end for him (Unless the impossible happens and they can trade Stanton).  So I have mixed emotions about what the Yankees did.

    The Reds are a funny organization.  I don't really know the full story behind there minor sell off this off season, but they could have been better if they would have just kept those guys they traded away.  But good for them for seeing an opportunity and going for it.  Just a word of caution with Cessa, I always called him the "white flag".  Any time he was in the game the Yanks were basically giving up.  I could not be happier to see him gone.  His numbers look good this year, but he makes a living giving up inherited runners (I did not look up the actual numbers, but that is what I remember about him).  He will hang a couple sliders every outing.  And Wilson has SUCKED this year.  He is a better pitcher then he has shown so I hope he turns it around for you guys.


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    drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts

    I honestly don't follow MLB at all today. The only reason I know who the players are is bc of this game.

    MLB has become the NBA where only a few teams can compete. Everyone else gets scraps, but every few years a team like the Marlins will shock everyone.


    Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

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    sullipa8sullipa8 Registered Users, Member 564 Posts
    Mad Max will be dominant in LA. Then his opponents post game will complain they couldn’t hit because they got 27 cheat outs. 
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    scostelloscostello Registered Users, Member 44 Posts

    I honestly don't follow MLB at all today. The only reason I know who the players are is bc of this game.

    MLB has become the NBA where only a few teams can compete. Everyone else gets scraps, but every few years a team like the Marlins will shock everyone.


    I respect everyone's opinion even though I do not agree.  I love baseball and to me it's BY FAR the greatest sport out there.  People say it's slow paced and boring, but every single pitch changes the outcome of an at bat and possibly the game.

    I do not like the "all or nothing" strategy these days but I'm slowly feeling like this will start turning around to a more contact minded mentality in the next 5 years.  


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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    Baseball to me is very different than the other sports mostly because of all of the minor league systems out there. Are you going to give up top prospects at the deadline to improve your playoff chances(the Dodgers gave up their #1 and #2)? Are you going after the big fish or just the guppies? Are you buyers of sellers? There seems to be a lot of parity in MLB and many teams were still trying to figure it out all the way to the deadline. It’s an exciting part of the season that I look forward to every year. Go Reds!
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    Base15Base15 Registered Users 504 Posts
    The large market teams can give up prospects. They’ll just sign a $200m free agent to fill the void. The economics of baseball is so broken.  I’m with Doc. I pay almost no attention to actual baseball. My team stinks and will stink almost always.  I’m pretty sure they don’t even try to win. 
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    drsmartassphddrsmartassphd Registered Users, Member 3,133 Posts
    scostello said:

    I honestly don't follow MLB at all today. The only reason I know who the players are is bc of this game.

    MLB has become the NBA where only a few teams can compete. Everyone else gets scraps, but every few years a team like the Marlins will shock everyone.


    I respect everyone's opinion even though I do not agree.  I love baseball and to me it's BY FAR the greatest sport out there.  People say it's slow paced and boring, but every single pitch changes the outcome of an at bat and possibly the game.

    I do not like the "all or nothing" strategy these days but I'm slowly feeling like this will start turning around to a more contact minded mentality in the next 5 years.  


    Understand, my comment has nothing to do with the game of baseball itself. I LOVE the game. I attend a ton of LSU baseball games every year.

    I'm referring specifically to how MLB is set up, and has been set up for a couple of decades now.

    You have only a few teams that can trade their farms, compete, etc.

    Look at yesterday, for example. Pretty much just LA, NY, Boston, making HUGE moves. That's it. Those are the teams. Everyone else fights for scraps.

    Yes, we are aware of the game having crashing issues in the middle of WoH, but we can't compensate you for the gold you lost at this time. This is done on a case by case basis. - TSB Customer Service

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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    Huge moves and high payroll doesn’t always translate into championships in any sport but it certainly gets you closer. I’ve always rooted for the small market teams and love it when they win it all. 

    @Base15 i agree with you 100%- you’re team sucks and always will with your owner. The Reds have still have 13 games  against them and I hope that we can take 10-11. That would bolster our playoff chances 
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    redlegs2018uredlegs2018u Registered Users, Member 1,048 Posts
    I’d like to see the Reds pick up one more SP, their biggest issue is just holding onto leads, even with Suarez batting .175 their offense can win games with league average pitching.  Just this last 6 weeks before they went out and got some bullpen arms they lost no less than 4 or 5 games they had multiple run leads in the 9th or 10th inning.  Adding another starter would give them 5 guys that can get them to the point that guys like Doolittle and Garrett and a couple others get exposed a bit less.
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    scostelloscostello Registered Users, Member 44 Posts
    Understand, my comment has nothing to do with the game of baseball itself. I LOVE the game. I attend a ton of LSU baseball games every year.

    I'm referring specifically to how MLB is set up, and has been set up for a couple of decades now.

    You have only a few teams that can trade their farms, compete, etc.

    Look at yesterday, for example. Pretty much just LA, NY, Boston, making HUGE moves. That's it. Those are the teams. Everyone else fights for scraps.

    That is how all sports are these days. My views are a bit skewed I guess because I'm a fan of one of those big market teams. However, teams like the Rays, Toronto and Brewers seem to always produce good teams. Heck, even the Marlins "show" once a decade to win a World Series. While you have the Mets and Angels who for some reason struggle most of the years. I don't like salary caps because it usually prevents all teams from keeping their stars as they get older. It's either pay your star player 30%+ of the cap or let someone else do it. This happens in the NFL all the time with non-QBs. There probably is no perfect solution.
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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    @scostello you’re right about the Marlins. Sad part is that they lost money each time that they won the WS due to adding payroll at the deadline. Tampa right now is the best example of a small market, low payroll team being competitive more often than not 
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    xracmanxracman Registered Users, Member 666 Posts
    I think historically, baseball has more balance and, dare i say, equity, than any of the other major sports (except maybe the NHL).   Small market, or rather small "budget" teams regularly compete for the championship.  St.L, Tor, TB, Mil, Oak, Minn, KC all have had succesful runs in the recent past.  Big budget teams also have to demosntrate smart management in order to be succesful, it's not just about the purse strings or market (see the Mets, who have lived in a large market with a small budget and horrible management until this season).  

    But I think we ARE entering the era of the "super" team, where the mega budget teams will spend and pay the comeptivie balance tax and see how that rolls for 5-6 year period: Dodgers, Padres, Hou, WhiteSox, Mets, Yankees, Braves, Phils, Red Sox aspire to be in this club, Jays knocking on the door, the Cubs exiting for the rebuild, and Rays, Cards, A's, Giants being the outliers.  Everyone else on the fence.  I'd like to see something like what the English Premier league does where they have a Champions league and they dump the bad teams to a lower league.

    Also agree that salary caps suck.  The quality of play in the NFL, IMHO, is horrible.  No great teams, no dynasties, no rewards for scouting and management, no loyalty to players.  I believe the popularity of the NFL is driven as much by gambling as it is by the quality of play (Office pools, Draft Kings, Fantasy Football).  And the NBA is just a joke, with players forcing their way onto teams with their buddies.  

    Finally, who's in doc's league group chat, since that's where the hot wife pics are...

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    xracmanxracman Registered Users, Member 666 Posts
    edited July 2021
    I tried to join this discussion with a 3 paragraph opinion on the sports landscape and it seems to have been deleted.  Was it because i bad mouthed the NBA or because i used the word "equity"?
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    CanadaCubsCanadaCubs Registered Users, Member 1,235 Posts
    Any Cubs fans out here? 😬🤦‍♂️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️
    "If you can't beat them, report them"
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    jalapenocubbiesjalapenocubbies Registered Users, Member 1,057 Posts
    Any Cubs fans out here? 😬🤦‍♂️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️
    Not anymore 
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    DFBBDFBB Registered Users, Moderators, Member, Moderator 6,602 Posts
    xracman said:
    I tried to join this discussion with a 3 paragraph opinion on the sports landscape and it seems to have been deleted.  Was it because i bad mouthed the NBA or because i used the word "equity"?
    It's there now. You were tagged by the system as spam, but should be fine moving forward.
    If you're not having fun, you're losing.
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    xracmanxracman Registered Users, Member 666 Posts
    DFBB said:
    xracman said:
    I tried to join this discussion with a 3 paragraph opinion on the sports landscape and it seems to have been deleted.  Was it because i bad mouthed the NBA or because i used the word "equity"?
    It's there now. You were tagged by the system as spam, but should be fine moving forward.
    Thanks.  No idea why it was labeled spam, unless that’s a commentary on my rambling prose.   But at least the word police aren’t as sensitive as I feared.

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    CanadaCubsCanadaCubs Registered Users, Member 1,235 Posts
    Any Cubs fans out here? 😬🤦‍♂️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️
    Not anymore 
    This was like losing everything in a shipwreck. i knew going into deadline that KB had the most likelihood of being traded. But it was Riz. Then Baez, Kim, and KB. You knew it needed to happen, but damn...
    "If you can't beat them, report them"
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    jalapenocubbiesjalapenocubbies Registered Users, Member 1,057 Posts
    Any Cubs fans out here? 😬🤦‍♂️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️🏃‍♀️
    Not anymore 
    This was like losing everything in a shipwreck. i knew going into deadline that KB had the most likelihood of being traded. But it was Riz. Then Baez, Kim, and KB. You knew it needed to happen, but damn...
    I just don’t think they got much back either. Time will tell I suppose. 
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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    The Cubs totally dismantled their club with very little in return. Considering that they probably would have lost all of these guys in the off-season getting something is better than nothing. To me the biggest surprise of the day was a non-move in Colorado by hanging on to Story. 
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    DFBBDFBB Registered Users, Moderators, Member, Moderator 6,602 Posts
    2003cobra said:
     To me the biggest surprise of the day was a non-move in Colorado by hanging on to Story. 
    That also surprised/annoyed Story too. Apparently, they didn't get any reasonable offers.  “With what we were offered, we thought the (competitive balance) pick was better suited for us and we could have Trevor on our team for another two months,” general manager Bill Schmidt said.
    If you're not having fun, you're losing.
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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    I saw that and found it hard to believe but they should know better than us. 114 players moved and 30 teams were involved in trades-that’s a lot of activity 
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    More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    Base15 said:
    The large market teams can give up prospects. They’ll just sign a $200m free agent to fill the void. The economics of baseball is so broken.  I’m with Doc. I pay almost no attention to actual baseball. My team stinks and will stink almost always.  I’m pretty sure they don’t even try to win. 
    The irony of this, is the large market teams have to have the prospects in the first place.  That in itself means hitting on their draft picks, international signings, and trades.  So having a large market doesn’t automatically mean success.  Yes, it definitely helps substantially, but the Dodgers have always had a huge market — yet went through a couple periods of being uncompetitive.  It truly boils down to quality of ownership, upper management, scouting, etc.

    When the Dodgers have had their periods of poor performance, it was also the times when the owner was garbage (Murdock and McCourt) and/or the GM made poor decisions (Evans and DePodesta) and/or their draft picks, international signings, and trades consistently didn’t pan out.

    The reason the Dodgers are widely considered the best run organization in US sports right now is because they have an ownership group that understands the balance between profitability/success/fan happiness and do not hesitate to put money right back into the team and facilities, while also trusting the guy they pay to run the show.  Plus, the guy running the show learned how to build a team and organizational system in Tampa Bay, where they literally cannot afford to miss on draft picks, international signings, or trades.

    The best example of this is when the Dodgers traded Puig, Wood, Kemp, and Farmer to Cincy.  They got back 2 rising prospects and equally important, they cleared up a bunch of payroll.  The 2 guys they got back were Jeter Downs and Josiah Gray — who they knew were going to become very valuable commodities, because of their excellent scouting department. This led to 1 hugely impactful trade and another trade that likely will be just as impactful:

    1. Downs, along with 2 of their own draft picks (Verdugo and Wong) and an international signing (Maeda), enabled them to trade for Betts, Price, and Graterol.  They were able to take on the salaries of Betts and Price because of the combination of their large market, the payroll cleared in the trade to Cincy, and ownerships willingness to spend.

    2.  Gray, along with 2 of their international signings (Ruiz and Carrillo) and a draft pick (Casey), enabled them to trade for Scherzer and Turner.  They are able to take on those salaries because despite the utter backfiring of signing Bauer to the huge contract (basically Friedman’s only real mistake to date, but also a lesson that he will take to heart going forward), ownership was willing to add even more salary, along with the additional luxury tax penalties.

    Meanwhile, a team like the Pirates, who can’t afford any mistakes in their smaller market — do things like trade away Gerrit Cole and eventually trade away the one good player they got back (Musgrove).  Then trade away Meadows and Glasnow for basically nothing (Archer).  For them, those moves were beyond crippling and with no cushion to absorb those mistakes, they dwell at the bottom each year.

    The Dodgers do have the highest payroll by far this year, but they planned to do that and prepared by resetting their luxury tax at the end of last season and have a TON of salary coming off their books at the end of this season.  Other big market teams are just resetting their luxury tax this year, in advance of the monster free agent class this coming off season.  Another example of Friedman being ahead of the game.

    Additionally — the Yankees, Phillies, Angels, Cardinals, Nationals, and Braves are 2nd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 12th, and 13th in payroll this year respectively — yet they are 10th (tied), 19th, 16th (tied),16th (tied), 22nd, and 18th respectively in winning percentage.

    Conversely — the Indians, Rays, Mariners, A’s, Brewers, White Sox, and Giants are 30th, 26th, 25th, 22nd, 19th, 14th, and 10th in payroll this year respectively — yet they are 15th, 3rd, 12th, 9th, 6th, 7th, and 1st respectively in winning percentage.

    It’s easy to see that MLB currently has the best parity in US sports, while it also takes the most intricate organizational planning to be successful.  Hell, sometimes even when an MLB organization makes mostly good decisions and does an overall great job of putting their team in a position to win, it just doesn’t pan out that year because unpredictable injuries occur (see 2021 Braves).

    Much like raising children — building a successful, sustainable winning franchise — takes a village, with some luck sprinkled in.
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    More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    2003cobra said:
    The Cubs totally dismantled their club with very little in return. Considering that they probably would have lost all of these guys in the off-season getting something is better than nothing. To me the biggest surprise of the day was a non-move in Colorado by hanging on to Story. 
    DFBB said:
    2003cobra said:
     To me the biggest surprise of the day was a non-move in Colorado by hanging on to Story. 
    That also surprised/annoyed Story too. Apparently, they didn't get any reasonable offers.  “With what we were offered, we thought the (competitive balance) pick was better suited for us and we could have Trevor on our team for another two months,” general manager Bill Schmidt said.
    This happened because Story has played quite poorly this year.  His WRC+ is 84 (100 is considered league average), despite playing his home games at Coors Field.  So his portrayed value to other teams took a sizable dip.  Also, from the Rockies perspective, they aren’t just trying to get the value of Story himself in return, but the value of Story plus the value of the competitive balance pick, if the Rockies give Story a qualifying offer and he turns it down.

    My prediction is that because Story’s value is greatly diminished (unless he catches fire for the remainder of the season), he will actually accept the qualifying offer from the Rockies this off season (because it will likely be the highest AAV offer available to him) and use the 2022 season as a re-try audition for the other 29 MLB teams, in hopes of getting a much better long-term deal thereafter,
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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    @More2Most2First dude I feel like I just read an article from an MLB expert only it was better! Nice job doing some research and putting it together. You right about Story but with all of the experts talking about him getting moved I figured that it was pretty much guaranteed. I know that as a Reds fan I was hoping that we didn’t trade for him. I’m sure that plenty of other fan bases felt the same way. Also, which of the playoff contenders needed him? The Mets and Dodgers picked up shortstops but Baez is playing second base and Turner was part of a package. With the way that Story is playing he might not have been much of an upgrade for many contenders. 
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    mythicaldragonmythicaldragon Registered Users, Member 2,418 Posts
    @2003cobra you took the words out of my mouth! 
    Excellent job @More2Most2First
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    More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    edited August 2021
    @2003cobra @mythicaldragon

    Thanks for the kind words guys!  I really love baseball and since I don’t spend hours playing TSB anymore, I filled some of that time by reading lots of MLB articles.  It also helps that I have a pretty good knowledge base for baseball history and I quit smoking weed a few weeks ago, so the insomnia and overactive brain were good contributors as well! 🤣🤣🤣
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    More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    @2003cobra

    Another factor is something you alluded to…positional versatility.  Baez has occasionally played 2B and 3B, while also rarely playing 1B and OF.  Trea Turner has played 2B and CF before, albeit not since 2016, so it will be interesting to see how that works for the Dodgers (especially since he is better defensively at SS than Seager, but Seager has only played SS).  While Story hasn’t played any position other than SS in his career.  I would imagine that was another large factor in why teams didn’t want to pay the asking price, as he could potentially lessen the versatility of many rosters, which is the trendiest thing for MLB organizations right now — thanks to Tampa Bay for being the pioneers and the Dodgers bringing it to the forefront.
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    2003cobra2003cobra Registered Users, Member 2,725 Posts
    I think that the versatility has been great and widely used to keep bats in the lineups. I’m not going to go back through all of history but you never really knew where Pete Rose was gonna be playing. He played 5 positions over the course of his career and obviously his bat was important to keep in the lineup. Kris  Bryant had also been doing that for several seasons. 
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    More2Most2FirstMore2Most2First Registered Users, Member 777 Posts
    I absolutely agree that it has existed in the past, but in a much rarer form.  Today, almost every team values positional versatility exponentially because injuries happen every year.  The Dodgers would honestly be behind the Padres and possibly the Reds right now, if it weren’t for Chris Taylor’s ability to play SS, 2B, and all 3 OF positions at a high level — along with Muncy’s ability to play 1B well and adequately at 2B and 3B.  Even someone like Lux, who hasn’t done much offensively, was of the utmost importance during Seager’s absence simply because he is an very good defensive SS.

    Now sometimes it might go too far, as Betts is active today and starting at 2B, which I feel is a bit of stretch, lol.
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